How to Break Free from the Tyranny of Other People’s Agendas

Yuen 

What are you doing today? Can you go to the? 

Mike 

Not much really. 

Yuen 

Airport and pick up my friend. 

Mike 

I I guess. Well, thank you for planning the whole day for me. How am I gonna find time for myself? Who impacts planning your day most? Is it yourself? Or somebody else. My name is Mike.  

Yuen 

It's Yuen.  

Mike 

Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician.  

Mike 

Today we are talking about setting agenda. Agenda in the context of schedule, I guess or plan and the inspiration for it was where you brought up the quotes by Melinda Gates ‘if you don't set your own agenda, somebody else will. And if I didn't fill my schedule with things I felt were important, other people would fill my schedule with things they felt were important’. What do you think about setting the agenda? 

Yuen 

There are two perspective of it, but from our work perspective, that is definitely true. If I don't set my day accordingly or even my week. What I find is how I plan the day becomes more reactive than proactive. And that might make me feel a little bit less in control where if I start the week or even the month, thinking like this is what I would like to do to plan to schedule in. I start with proactively blocking time out for those where they're just meeting, whether it's conversation and then. Also, leaving time for reactive things because it might be that people need me to be responsive to a certain issue, for example, and so. I think when I start with the approach where I am being more proactive. I feel at the end of the day or at the end of the week more fulfilled and I don't feel like I'm being driven around by other peoples need. 

Mike 

OK, so how do? You do it. What do you? Need to set up a successful schedule. A successful plan either for the day or for the week. 

Yuen 

So I'll break it. In my case, my day-to-day is very different because of my different roles and so. I would schedule my week according to things that are. Not going to change, for example. My partner sessions in the practise those are set days all set sessions, so those wouldn't change, so those will be set aside but the sessions for my clinical director will or the sessions about leading the team or the pharmacy team for example. Usually when I am looking at doing that, it's either having conversation, supervision, checking in. Sometimes my work in the EDI World, equality, diversity and inclusion world requires me to have a bit more planning, thinking space. Conversation. So. I tend to have A to do list based on different areas and based on different priorities. And then I look at and adjust my work week based on what I would like to achieve. Or mainly how I want to feel after that week. 

Mike 

Why do you? Plan. Do you plan to do more or to be more fulfilled? 

Yuen 

When do I plan? I plan because I want to get certain things done, or maybe instead of done, let's say if I have a infinite mindset of I want the team to be better instead of a goal where we're gonna get to. And point X how do we do that? How do I do that if I want to improve the system in the practise? Where do I start? Who do I speak to and how can I get there? And so the how in terms of the group of people that I need to speak to might change, it might be that my approach will need to change depending on who I'm speaking to, however. If I then set up a system where I regularly focus on improving the system, improving people, and making sure people are listened to. Then my aspiration would not be just purely aspiration. It will be something that I'm working towards. 

Mike 

OK, so it's to get things done essentially and to have the satisfaction of getting it done or is it efficiency? 

Yuen 

So I think there will be some level of efficiency. Yes, but I think getting things done felt like a very. Fine. Right. Mind up to me like we'll just get to this point and then we're going to get to the next point. For me, it's more about what is my vision for each of those roles and how can I improve my system. That means my day-to-day my week. How do I break it down to get to what I aspire to be? 

Mike 

So would you be able to tell me how do you allocate time for? Certain activities. Is it you based on experience or whether you're trying to fit the right? I'm going to aim to do this because I have got a gap between the meetings and how what? What do you prefer and how do you go about that? 

Yuen 

I think it's for me, it's a lot of trial and error. Sometimes I go, I feel that I need to meet with the team quite frequently, but then sometimes I go. Am I having meeting for meeting sake, but it's more conducive not just from my perspective but listening to the team members as well and so. There isn't going to be A1 size fill. For certain people, when they are doing one thing, they can only do that thing or for certain people, they're quite happy doing one thing, have their e-mail open and then reply to paying message where it's just a simple sentence. And for some people, having that fleeting approach works for them. It's just how. Different people brain work so. 

Mike 

Which camp are you in? Are you in the one that does many things at the same? 

Yuen 

Time. I wouldn't say many things, but I am somebody who can. If I'm typing something up, I can speak to somebody and then touch type and so sometimes. It baffles my colleagues. 

Mike 

OK, so now what is the level of flexibility in how you organise your schedule? Do you need? You have everything. You know, buttoned up to the very last minute or how much flexibility do you agree in? 

Yuen 

Again, it all comes down to you, not just from a work perspective, but also how frequently you reflect and how frequently you check in internally and. I think having some time where you schedule thinking time is quite important and sometimes for me there are so many things to remember and sometimes I miss one or. Do and do things, then come back to me when I'm meditating at night and it just appears in my head. 

Mike 

Just to unload it for no sleepless nights. 

Yuen 

Yeah, of course. And I think if it's one after another after another, you know, now virtual meetings are very common. And so if it's scheduled after scheduled after scheduled, what I've noticed in myself and others is sometimes when you in a meeting and you move on to a meeting straight away without any breaks and sometimes. And no toilet break. Is you bring the emotion from one meeting to another. And so in the second meeting, people think ohh, why are you reacting this way? Because the first meeting was really hard, but you've not had a chance. Yeah, but you've not had a chance to. I don't know. Just stand up and stretch or can have a drink or can have a wee. 

Mike 

Yeah, cause you're preloaded, hmm. Yeah, back-to-back meetings are quite taxing. 

Yuen 

Yeah, and sometimes it's a hybrid of backpack meeting in face to face meeting. But when that is arranged, there is no driving time or lunch time scheduled and those. And so I sometimes hear people driving from one place to another. Eating while they're in the car. That happened to me before, not very frequently, thankfully. 

Mike 

Yeah, but you see, that's the thing we're talking about. Other such in your agenda, you have to you. You can't control everything because there are a lot of people that often have to get together. Do you then allow all the meetings as they come along, do you pick and mix? Do you try to attend as many as you can? How do you prioritise? I guess because scheduling time, scheduling your agenda, it's all about realise that you can't do everything, at least for me. And then you start to. To either prioritise more important things or reject things that are not adding to your, I don't know performance your purpose. Whatever you know. 

Yuen 

I agree. 

Mike 

Are you more rejecting or are you more accepting? 

Yuen 

I want to beginner version of me so even 1.0 was somebody who wanted to prove of us. Have fears losing out and would try to say yes to as many thing as possible because what if this is really important? What if? What if, what if I am now at a stage where I am prioritising and say no to things? But in order to get to you in 1.0 to you in 2.0 and then also work in progress. I needed to find out why I feel the need to prove myself. Why do I feel that I have to put 110% every day and then by the end of the week? I'm flat out and here's. 

Mike 

What I think might be a light that sort of shines on that in that respect, that if I. Plan or whatever I you know, schedule into my world, into my life. Realigns with the purpose. Rather than with other people, then it fulfils my personal agenda better. Do you know what I mean? So, you know, if you just accept every single invitation, just prove yourself. And I think you have to go through this stage because this allows you to understand where the priorities are. And it's like a baptism of fire. You know you have. To prove yourself to others. But I think more important to yourself and also to understand what things matter to you and what realigns with your purpose, or if you're still trying to work out what your purpose is. 

Speaker 

And I think. 

Yuen 

There are two parts of the picture as well. One agree like you said, you know we need to understand where us as individual need to work. On I will buy and building the confidence to set boundaries, but also there is a systemic side of things. So from an organisational perspective, what is in place first of all, to allow people to feel safe to talk about it when they're overload. Overworked second of all, what system is in place to mitigate that? Because it can be. Me a place that has none of that. So a person's overworked don't have anywhere to go to. And then burn out and then leave. Or they have some place to go to but doesn't really make a lot of difference so. I guess the road to burnout would be a little bit slower because you're able to talk about it being empathised. I think when you have one and two where you have the space for people to talk about. It and also approach it empower the individual and the team and the whole system to say, you know, what can we do differently, what can be taken away or done more efficiently or delegated or in some cases, how does the workflow even work? 

Mike 

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. You organise the work of other people as well, and we all at some stage have got our work organised for us by others because, you know, there is a meeting coming along or something, you know, inform people need something from you so. 

Yuen 

Yeah, people need something from you. 

Mike 

It is quite striking trying to find the balance and to find time. To fit them around your purpose cause that certain things that you can't avoid. OK, sometimes you might be not in the right frame of mind, but you still have to go to the meeting. You still have to do something. You might not be fully rested from, like you said, you going into the meeting with your head full of the previous meeting. Yeah. And how do you find time to regenerate, I guess. At least I don't know your mood, your feeling about the situation, or how do you look after. Yourself in this. 

Yuen 

So before answering that question, I want to give a bit of example of what we discussed just before that hopefully people can relate to this quite well. Usually when you say when you have things arranged for us that other person might or some of the time holds more power or influence. When you. So I'll give you an example. For example, person A is a junior person and a manager. Wants person A to do more and this junior persons has got a senior. So when the manager says do more junior person, if they're new. For example if they don't feel confident they don't feel safe, might find it very hard to say no to the manager. Whereas if the single person then. Has a good relationship with the junior, understands what's happening. Understand the workflow. When the manager then asked that question, the scenic can almost be there to bat it back whilst working with the junior on the confident side of things. 

Mike 

So here, incorporating something very important that we discussed in the past, the culture in the team exactly. And the health of the team, also one of our episodes we were talking about that as well. So it all matters on how the organisation is structured and where does the bosses ego. 

Yuen 

Or lack of understanding. 

Mike 

To to allow space or lack of understanding. Yeah, you know, everybody has got their own agenda to fulfil and some people's agenda is to turn up at work and finish at 5:00. So we just have to make sure that we increase that productivity, drive through for example. In that purpose, for example. 

Yuen 

Yeah, answer your question that I haven't had a chance to. Answer It how do you take care of yourself? So I think this is really important for both the senior and junior person, even more so the senior person who's going to be batting that off. Because if they both have same level of power, same level of influence, that might be a little bit easier. But if it's not. It can feel like. You are pushing back and that can feel quite scary for people, especially if not something that you they're used to doing. And even if it's something that you used to do and. You might not enjoy it very much. And so when that happens, the reflection almost the. How do I feel after having this conversation? And how did I take it? And did I take that personally? Should I take that personally? Why did I take that personally, all of that? Inner chatter. Really need to have a space to decompress, usually after the days ended or the weeks ended, but what I'm trying to say is we need to allocate some time for that. So when we talk about agenda. That needs to be included as well. 

Mike 

And I guess it works for different people differently as well, because some people would like to talk things through with others. Even with their partners back at home parents, whoever children. 

Yuen 

Many of their peers that they can trust. 

Mike 

Or or do it on their own. Yeah. Yeah. So I must say that I'm quite a big admirer of how you organise your work. And I notice that you are much. More suited to multitasking in the work environment than probably at home. Is that fair? 

Yuen 

Yes, I think maybe because of the things that I need to focus on. 

Mike 

Or is it your way of decompressing so you? Know if you're. If you're with kids. 

Yuen 

Don't think maybe. 

Mike 

You're with kids and that's it. 

Yuen 

Yeah. And maybe that work setting that I enjoy after doing it after a certain amount of time, I feel the need to Decon. Press, but usually just to give the listener a bit of context. Usually when we're both home with the kids, what happens is I will play with the. Kids and I'm their emotional what do you call it? Like, filling up their emotional drug and then try to do everything else, like complain then. 

Mike 

As well as play. 

Yuen 

I think we approach that emotional joke differently for me, I'm. Then 110% in I might be playing with them. They're being like a baby because somebody else wants to be a mum, for example. But I think that is my way of just being and that for me it's quite relaxing. 

Mike 

Is this your unscheduled time in the scheduled world? Cause you know you have got this time. OK, let's say it's when you finish work till the kids go to sleep. So it is kind of scheduled. 

Yuen 

I I had a. So yeah, you're right. It's a scheduled. Away for me as well, where I think from this time to this time This is why I am with him. And I'm present. 

Mike 

Scheduled scheduled free flow. 

Yuen 

Yeah. Where I am with them and my goal is being present. So my phone is aside and I blow them. Whatever they need something. Do you need anything from me? They just want to sit on my lap and cuddles. 

Mike 

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. 

Yuen 

And so I just sink into that. Instead of thinking ohh, I need to help you in the kitchen. 

Mike 

Well, you know, but we fulfil our well the things that need to be done and the time that we spend with the kids one way or another that it sort of works like you know lots and lots of parents. We all have things to do and we all have got our. No obligations towards the children as well. We want to spend time with them. We don't want them to just. You know, do things on their own because first of all, they wouldn't last. Second of all, it's fun to spend time with them. I enjoy it. I think it's very rejuvenating and it also allows you to step away from anything else that needs doing in a world that you fix in the world. Work Oregon, wherever. 

Yuen 

Plus, they're at the age now where? They really want us to. Play with them and that doesn't last. Long. Like you said before, so. 

Mike 

Exactly. Let's use it. I I want to use it, as you know, as long as I can because. Soon they'll be in the bedrooms on the phones or whatever devices there's going to be available in the next few years, probably. 

Yuen 

And think what parentheses are not. Important because their friends said they're the line. 

Mike 

I will say that I have never been very good at not very good, but I have never paid a lot of attention to. Planning and scheduling. OK, yeah. My day week because I don't know was was it the question of, you know, being disappointed or not getting things done that you put a lot of things alright. I have to do this, that and the other and then I don't do half of it. 

Yuen 

Your day, your week off. 

Mike 

And then you say it. Well, actually, that day I didn't achieve enough. To keep me going. 

Yuen 

But I think you do schedule. 

Mike 

I do now I do not. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Because it was for me and also the nature of my days that was many years ago when I sort of was step stepping into adult life were quite difficult to predict. And I had to adapt. 

Yuen 

I see. OK. 

Mike 

On the fly. So my first motto was planning is a complete waste of time. 

Yuen 

Yeah, cause you've seen how it doesn't work. 

Mike 

Because you spend time plan. Thing and you might have as well done something else during that time when you spent planning. OK and then. There's also one more thing. I realise that when you're younger and when you have got less awareness, I'm not saying younger in age, but when you have less awareness about things around you, you accomplish more things. Because you don't even think about them. They just get done. OK. And then when you remember it many. Yeah. It's almost they say how they manage, you know, to be stuck in traffic, get this done, drop them off. Pick that up, you know, write whatever you need to write. Read whatever you need to read. And then now I say this is impossible for me to do it without having a plan. I. Know that the. You know the activities have changed because of children. Family life and everything else. But I think that too much awareness of the things make you. As less consciously in control, you have greater awareness of the world around you and all the things that you're doing, but you tend to pick and mix the things that are most important. Like you know, I remember for a while after some sort of leadership trainings. That was again quite a while ago. You have those four areas of. Things that are important and need to be done now, things that are not important and need to be done, things that are not important and they don't have to be done now and those that are important but don't have to be done now. And I try to for a while to get into a swing. Of trying to put the order into the thing, so you sort of try to organise them in a bit more systemic or systematic order, OK. And the first thing that I started doing is the things that are not important and not urgent. I just stopped doing them. Because they were just not necessary. Ultimately. Yeah. And you know, but there is one thing that you have to understand that very often the urgency changes and the importance changes as well. So you have to be able to reassess it quite quite well, but even. 

Yuen 

Of course. 

Mike 

Like when we're talking before about scheduling my biking or exercising, or if you. Planning you have much greater chance of fulfilling it because your brain is getting ready for things that are planned and this is coming from a person that's always been quite spontaneous when it comes to doing things. 

Yuen 

Extremely just to give a bit of context for those listeners who haven't heard about the episode, tell them a little bit more about the Viking that you've mentioned. 

Mike 

Well, yeah. When I started going back to biking after many years, I was essentially, you know, finding time here and there to try to go for half an hour or an hour for a bike. But this was the least important thing. The thing it was on the bottom of the importance when it comes to all the other activities, cause you're trying to squeeze it in between spending time with the kids between cooking. I don't know, shopping everything else was essentially more important, so it didn't happen. So when we started. To schedule it in, they say right every Saturday or Sunday morning, I go for a bike. Families aware the kids are aware you are aware. And this actually started to happen for me that I had this time secured and protected time for exercise, for, for biking, for going on a bike. 

Yuen 

And I think that also comes from an element of you are putting everyone's priority of of yourself. 

Mike 

I just see how many things they're doing. 

Yuen 

Yes. And so that happens to a lot of us I'm sure. So saying to you, you need to put yourself first. It's easily said, but not easily done. 

Mike 

Yeah, because it's not that. It's not a natural state. 

Yuen 

Yes, and that is the self worth thing that we talked about previously, but also the second thing is OK, you can say it, but then what happen? What does it need to make it happen? What needs to change in the system as the family to make that happen and so? Addressing the self-awareness of him, that's your health. That's really important. You feel differently. You act differently after consistent week in bike ride. And that needs to continue. So how can we do that? And like you said, making the family aware understanding that. Between this time and this time in the morning, that is either out biking or indoor biking, and with time that becomes the norm. Sometimes we have a, you know, a bit. 

Mike 

Of a we have to have a level of. Flexibility. And I'm. 

Yuen 

Yes, but most of the time. But looking at how much you were biking prior to a system that's been set up, that was a massive difference. And so I think both looking at how you prioritise yourself and yourself. 

Mike 

I'm quite good with flexibility. 

Yuen 

Worth it's important and that needs to go with what system do you have in place for you to achieve those goals? What little steps, little changes that you make just have to feel that those are massive changes. And the other. Thing I find also helps is how you. View yourself. If you view yourself as an active regular biker compared to where I am, I just bike whenever I think how you see yourself also changes how you take on setting up a new habit. 

Mike 

OK, so to sum it up, you have to look out for how you talk to yourself and about yourself. And also you have to set the systems in place in order for things to happen. It's not a guarantee, but it increases the chances of that actually happening, I think and we're going back to James clears. Quote you don't rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the levels of your systems and that's. Quite striking. I think that in many. Areas of our life, whether it's professional or whether it's personal, making sure that we can find a system that we work it out because it's not something that you can just download from the Internet. You know, it's something that you have to live through to. Start realising the things that benefit you and the things that realign with your purpose. I also think I'm a quite good example. Of a person that is a living proof that this can be done for somebody who is really. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've always been very busy in getting a lot of things done and I've also come across this. I don't remember whose crowd or whether it was a crowd or whether it was just saying but. If you want somebody to do something for you, make sure that you ask somebody who is very, very busy. Who does a lot of things because those people will be able to fit that thing to help you inside their busy schedule because they already are very good at scheduling and it is a skill and there's a skill we can get better at it by practising it. 

Yuen 

Another point I want to add. Is trial and error. Because the system that. I have six months ago I have to amend it so anytime there are any changes anytime when I check in internally or mentally where I go, is it quite right for me? Is it quite right for the family? Is it quite right for work? It frustrates me sometimes, especially when I find a system that works and after a while, why is it not working again? That trial error always allows you to improve the system that you have, and it might start off as more where you want it to be. Keep trying. It's a part of the journey. 

Mike 

Yeah. And I would not like to get to the point that I only rely on the schedule to get things I don't want to be the prisoner of that schedule because I will suffocate and will. Absolutely. Just stop doing that. You know it has to be a balance for me because I am quite good with getting things done in a more spontaneous way or maybe thinking outside of the box and how to get things done or maybe finding different way of sorting. Problems out different to the others, different to what I've done before. Ohh so essentially I just like trialling the the idea. 

Yuen 

So as you can see, when we first met each other, he is somebody who does not like planning at all and I'm someone who loves planning. And so I think we got to like via osmosis of moderation, I hope, but still retaining what we. Like to some extent, I hope you find it helpful. We'll see you next week. 

Mike 

Thank you so much and bye bye. It’s about time for Yuen Reads. 

Yuen 

Welcome to Yuen Reads. Today we are talking about the book by Michelle Obama becoming. When I started reading this book, it felt like I had a a looking glass almost that allowed me to delve deep into her upbringing. And how her everyday life impacts her future, it took me through her growing and formative years. It shows me how her and Barack met, how relationship can be challenging, how it can also blossom and grow. They also demonstrate to me the journey of her finding her own voice whilst having the challenging quest to navigate through family and political life when. Barack took office. It is a compelling memoir with honesty about difficulties of everyday life. 

Mike 

Thank you for listening to the Imperfect Ancient podcast. 

Yuen 

Grow and learn with us using our experience and flaws, just like we'd learn every day about ourselves. The best way to support us is to hit that follow or subscribe button. Thanks for your participation in our socials. We take to heart the ratings, reviews and comments. 

Mike 

The best way we can repay you is by making this podcast better and by reaching and inspiring more people like you, like us, until next time.