The Introverted Leader: Unlocking Your Hidden Potential

Introverted leaders? Can you be a successful leader if you are introverted?
What are myths around introverted people? What qualities they have and maybe what
cons they have that stop in them from reaching their potential? Yuen, have we
got tips for success? Of course. Let's discuss together. 
My name is Mike. It's
Yuen. Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician.
Many people associate leadership with extraversion. If you are an introvert
and you think you can't be a leader, think again because research suggests
otherwise, as good leadership comes in a variety of personality types. Yeah,
according to various reports it's estimated that there are between 30 to
56 percent of introverts of the world population and even up to 70 percent of
CEOs describes themselves as introverts, which is quite significant and I think
stands in opposition to a popular belief. So how would you see the difference
between an introvert and an extrovert? Let's start with the fact that very
rarely you would be in an extreme spectrum, in an extreme sort of case. It is a
spectrum of behaviors that may lead you to believe that you are more extra or
introverted, okay? But let's talk about like typical idea of introverted people
and extroverts as well, okay? So one of the ways to describe people's energy as
intro and extroverts is by how they are charging their batteries. Usually
extroverts are people who gain energy by working or being around people and they
thrive when there is attention, when there are people who are participating
in the conversation, in the situation in general and that's what sort of drives
them. That's the initial response they get is the buzz of being there, being
surrounded by people, making an impact, okay? And it doesn't mean that they may
feel that they are better than everybody else. It's how they gain the
energy. That's what wakes them up. It's a bit like people meeting people, seeing
people in the morning or whatever. It's like having a coffee that gives you that
sort of buzz, that drive and it opens you to new ideas and you start to understand
that, you know, all of a sudden, right, the world is an oyster and I can do
whatever I like. So that's the way to describe the extroverts very often.
Whereas when it comes to introverts, those people gain their energy by
staying away from people and they charge them on their own and they very often
can entertain themselves very well without participation of others and
that's where they, I wouldn't say necessarily thrive as such, but that's
where they feel most comfortable and most at peace with themselves and any or
some of them or good part of the interactions with others will drain this
energy. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad at it, that they are, you know,
not getting on well within the conversation or within the social
interactions, but that drains them. That makes people tired and they need the
time on their own to recharge those batteries. So I think this is the
definition that's closest to the feel definition that I recognize myself.
Yeah. I'm curious why then leaders are portrayed in various ways being
extroverted. What do you think, is there any reason behind the misconception?
I think one part of it is that we see the leaders only to some extent, okay. I
think that it's down to the fact that we see the leaders of big organizations,
big companies, you know, being decisive, being open, out in the public light and
everything else. Whereas it might be just a very small proportion of what they
actually do. And one of the reasons why the misconception is still common is due
to unconscious bias. So unconscious bias could be described as like social
stereotypes about certain groups of people. So you portray people in a
certain light. You expect, I don't know, the boss of the very big company to be
open people's person and being persuasive and confident and everything
else. Cause that's how they might come across during short clips somewhere on
YouTube or somewhere on the TV. Whereas actually this might be just a very small
piece of how they are. And it doesn't represent the true reflection, but this
is what catches the limelight. This is what comes across as the personality.
And it's not always the case. There is plenty of example of people who we might
consider to be extroverts who actually are not. For example, Barack Obama, for
example, Mahatma Gandhi, for example, Warren Buffett, for example, Oprah
Winfrey and Albert Einstein. They might be considered as people who are
extroverted, but they actually would describe most likely in most cases them
as introverts.
It feels like there are myths surrounding leaders because it feels like
leaders should be risk takers or in some ways perhaps extroverted leaders
are more preferred, like you say, in some ways portrayed in the media in
different ways. So there might be myths that leaders should be risk takers,
extremely sociable, expert networker, would you say, being eloquent, taking
charge, perhaps expected to work well with a lot of people, being very
assertive, decisive, and command attention?
Yeah, I think that this is a fair description of the general idea. But if
you look really closely in all those myths, you can see that those
characteristics could potentially describe also people who are introverts.
I mean, there are people who are introverted who are quite good and quite
capable in social situations. It may drain their energy, it may drain their
sort of life juice, but they still can do it, can do it very well.
And I guess the society's expectation of introvert perhaps is somebody who's
relatively quiet, who is shy, perhaps not really voicing the opinion.
But in the modern world where you have so much information, and as we mentioned
before in one of the episodes with living in a microwave society, we are
sort of led to believe that, you know, faster is good, that the interaction,
that immediacy of people's connection is good, that louder is better, that
expressive is best. You know, this is what the general consensus of pop
culture is all about without looking into the details. Because if you start
disassembling those characteristics, you start to understand that some of
those descriptions or qualities may be result of, for example, introverts
trying to fit in, trying to be like others, to maybe not necessarily show
their true colours in a way, but potentially trying to fit in, trying to
present themselves as people who can be like, well, like everybody else.
Because if we assume that extrovert is a norm, because that's what modern
society leads us to believe, that this is sort of the norm and this is how
everybody's supposed to be. It says, oh, I'm a chatty person, so everybody
should be chatty, you know.
Plus there is also the society's positive connotation around extroversion.
Someone who speaks raised their hand in class, perhaps somebody who is
outspoken, somebody who joins in the discussion regularly, someone who
enjoys being the centre of attention, that seemed to be something of a
strength. Whereas when you hear the comment, oh, I'm sorry, he or she's a
bit shy, or I'm sorry, he or she's a bit quiet, it doesn't have the same
level of impact or different level of judgment for introversion versus
extroversion.
Well, and there are some, I think, professions probably, which attract
certain kind of people.
And there are certain qualities that we sort of trust when we're going to
speak to someone. If you have a state agent who is very introverted and
doesn't really like interaction with people, that's not really the most
welcoming. I mean, I would be inclined to trust these people more, but you
won't see a lot of them amongst the state agents, I would imagine. My idea
of a state agent is the person who is really, you know, good with building
networking, building connection, building relationship in the very, like,
confident and very people-friendly way.
So is this then part of your unconscious bias about estate agents in
general?
Absolutely, yeah, because you would expect, it's like with the sellers, you
know, in general, people who sell things, you don't want them to be quiet,
reserved and withdrawn because you would not necessarily sell a lot.
I mean, that's where I think that some professions attract different people.
Whereas, you know, people can learn the skills.
It might be not the best idea for them because it might be just simply
draining.
So can introvert be a people person?
Yes, definitely.
So when I talk about this, I'll come back to your estate agent comment.
I feel extroverts come alive when it is a cause that they believe in.
So for example, Rosa Parks, known as the mother of civil rights movement,
she's a reserved and quiet introvert.
And if introverts step into an area where it's something that they are
passionate in, they strongly believe in, all of a sudden the presentation
would be different.
So I feel that introverts are more selective in terms of the area that they
choose and in the area that they speak.
Well, I know that it's not the world's best kept secret that you're an
introvert.
So what is your experience?
So people around me are actually quite surprised when I told them that I am an
introvert because they would say, Oh, but you're constantly doing speaking events.
You're constantly speaking to groups of people.
I am surprised that you say that you are an introvert.
And so I need to start from my own misconception about leaders as well.
It's the same thing because I grew up being exposed to the media and perhaps
biases and the positive connotation of being outspoken.
I was outspoken in the areas that I wanted to and the areas where I don't
really see a point, I wouldn't.
So when I wanted to be more involved in the leadership position, initially, I
felt that I had to, like you said, fit in, to fit into the mold and to be
part of the secret code of such.
If you want to be leader, it feels like you need to have similar qualities.
And when I was trying to do that, it really didn't work.
It didn't click with me.
It was very draining for me.
So then I learned to accept who I am in terms of I'm trying to understand what
are my strengths and where can I tap into?
So what are the things I'm better than others and what are my superpowers
essentially, and I know everyone has their own, if you're not sure which one,
spend time to find out within yourself.
And when I started doing that, I realized, right, I've got the
ability to connect to people.
I've got the ability for people to open up and I have the ability to
galvanize people and influence.
But I think it also comes from the qualities that you have as an introverted
person because you are a good listener.
And that usually happens to be a trait of people who are introverted.
Yes, definitely.
And when I found my own niche, in a way, I then tried to polish
that skill in many different ways.
And when I know my purpose, when I know what are my values, when I know what
drives me and what are my passion, when I step into those situations where I need
to speak to a big crowd of people, sometimes I feel still get a little bit
nervous, but it's a sign that I care about the topic that I'm talking about.
And because I'm stepping to an area where I'm really passionate about, it doesn't
feel like I am going against my grain.
Does that make sense?
I think it does.
I mean, as long as it doesn't make sense to you, that's the most important, I guess.
I feel like I am stepping into my power.
Yeah, you're stepping into your power, but this is where we were talking about
this fitting in, would it be a positive case for fitting in for people who are
trying to go outside of the comfort zone to reach the others, for example?
So when I tried to fit in, that didn't work and it changes when I completely
accepted who I am and then created that sense of belonging where I accept myself
for who I am and also accepting the people around me for who they are.
And we're going on a journey together in terms of the team or the organisation.
Whoever that steps into my room, whichever talk that I'm doing, instead of me telling
them what to do, it's us learning from each other.
Fair enough.
And shall we have a quick detour and talk about the chameleons of people who are
in between, ambiverts or people who sometimes are described as centroverts?
Because I initially thought of myself and, you know, I love people and I gain a lot
of energy when I'm interacting with others.
And I feel like this is my strength because I really love people.
I love being around people, with people and for the people.
But then I also noticed that I do feel quite comfortable on my own as well.
And I, in fact, generate quite a lot of positive energy when I can recharge just
on my own or by myself.
So that led me to believe that maybe I'm not that 100% extrovert that I always anticipated.
I think that I would class myself probably with a, maybe not strong, but with a dominant
of extrovert myself, but I would go somewhere towards the centrovert or ambivert, if you
want to call it.
Yeah, I agree.
That's why I said it's very hard to be 100% because if you are completely 100% of one end
of the spectrum or the other, it gives you very little flexibility and it might affect
your daily activity.
I think it's important for you and for us as well to discuss the benefits of introverted
leaders, because when I talk about strengths that I've tapped into, this is relatively
common in introverts and understanding that these are your strengths instead of trying
to be something that you are not.
Absolutely.
I think that the introverted leaders and introverted people in general have got lots of
qualities that can be an added value and sometimes people don't quite realise their
potential.
Would you say that introverts are very often considered as underselling themselves, whereas
extroverts are trying to oversell the lack of skills that they might have or trying to,
you know, portray it in a better light than it actually is?
I want to say yes to the general statement, but in terms of underselling or overselling,
I think introverts perhaps don't really enjoy the limelight as much, so they might let others
take credit, even though the credit's due to them.
So they can be relatively humble, but in one way or another, it affects their progression
because the managers or the leaders might only see, or first of all, see the people
who are louder.
Yeah, more noticeable.
Exactly.
Okay, so let's go on to those benefits of introverted leaders.
Would you say that creativity is one of them?
Yes, definitely.
I feel that introverts have the ability of out of the box thinking and also has, like you
said, the listening skills.
So because we take into account all parties involved and then allow for some quiet
reflection, introverts tend to allow themselves time to think before actually deciding on
something.
So it's more of a risk and benefits measure, but by taking into account everybody.
So not much of a rushed decision or let's just get it done now.
Yeah, I also would put into that mix being more methodical and deliberate because that
is sort of connected to assessing the risks carefully before taking them.
And that leads then to making decision with certainty.
And it's usually quite oriented or embedded in details, I would say.
I agree.
I think communication is also one of them because introverts choose their moment to speak
wisely.
They're not just speaking about the first thought that popped into their head, saying only
important things after considering multiple options.
Would you say that's why they listen more?
Yeah.
So that's why they come across as more of a listener.
And perhaps they also choose their communication methods thoughtfully, whether it's in a
written format or within a smaller group.
Yeah, I think these days when it comes to communication methods, not everything has to be
direct in the eye, you know, conversation.
There is plenty of other ways that we could make ourselves heard within the groups, teams,
organizations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think because the communication methods are done more mindfully and there are more
engagement with the team, there is also more trust building, so more one-to-one because
it's a smaller group where introverts might feel more comfortable and people in the team
might feel more that they're able to build more meaningful and trusting relationships.
I think with regards to this relationship, the thing that you mentioned earlier, the
listening, that leads to stronger bonds because people like, want, and need to be listened
to.
I think that's quite an important part of it.
Also, I would put into this list here that we are trying to put together, problem solving
because people who are introverted seem to be a little bit more consistent when it comes
to persisting until the solution is found.
Yeah.
So there was a mention that Albert Einstein said, it's not that I'm so smart, it's that I
stayed with the problem longer because it gives them time for reflection and going into the
details that we mentioned before.
Yeah.
And also perhaps tap into their creativity skills to try different ways of managing the
problem.
We mentioned about listening to others and communicating clearly.
I think with that introverts are also team enabler in a way because they're allowing others
to shine by not dominating meetings and encouraging others to come up with ideas and
empowering them.
So one way or another, they are promoting a more proactive culture.
But this works in my opinion, where they don't have ambition to be, let's say, let's
generalize here and put like extroverts that they want to take the credit for it.
If they are quite happy to be behind, to play, you know, the background, that's what's
going to give them fulfillment as such because they're doing it for themselves and not
necessarily to be, you know, up on the front or people who want to shine despite being
introverts.
I think that if they assume the role of being the creative power and not necessarily the
visible power, that's going to bring them happiness.
And I think this is where they shine better if they find them true belonging rather than to
try to fit in and overwrite, you know, all the other extroverts, for example.
I agree.
And I want to clarify that we're not saying introverts, it's not an introvert versus
extroverts conversation.
We're not saying introverts are better, but we're saying introverts have got those potential
skillset that can make them a really good leader.
Just as good as anybody else.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So do not exclude them from leadership position.
And perhaps you are thinking about stepping up, but you think, oh, can I, am I able to, but I
don't fit the usual mold.
Think again.
Absolutely.
I feel introverted leaders also remain calm during crisis because they can manage
uncertainty with all the skills that we've mentioned above with the communication, cool head.
Yeah.
And in some ways internalizing it instead of externalizing it where they are worried, but
they're showing it.
And then that creates a ripple effect where everyone else is worried as well.
Very good.
And there is regarding the communication and what you mentioned earlier, there is this
conclusion that introverts listen when others speak and people listen when introverts speak.
Yeah, because they don't speak very frequently.
So usually they make it count.
Yes.
Not like me blabbing all the time, blah, blah, blah.
That doesn't have a lot of, oh, maybe there is some merit in it, but some of it is just very
often fluff.
I want to say in your situation, it's really quite helpful in social settings.
I tend to have deep, meaningful conversations, but not frequently.
I find more surface conversation quite draining for me.
And in that way, you compliment me so I can leave that to you.
And then when it comes to the more deep, meaningful, I know you do as well, but what I'm
trying to say is other than deep, meaningful conversation, you can manage those day-to-day more
surface level conversation.
It doesn't drain you.
The HR side of things that you have to do one way or another.
So we talked about the benefits of introverts.
Let's talk about potential qualities that might hold introverts back.
What do you think?
Okay.
So when we're talking about the cons of being introverts or potential cons, I mean, there is
always any con is opportunity for improvement and for working on it.
Once you realize that, then you can do something about them.
I think one of them is staying in the comfort zone.
That very often there is no drive or push to move yourself outside of a comfort zone to do
something new.
Can I say besides no drive or push?
I think it might more likely to be due to fear, the fear of the unknown, that the uncertainty
opportunity, maybe there are opportunities, but the fact that you're stepping into something
unknown might discourage introverts to try it potentially.
What about not being noticed to be promoted?
We touched on it.
We touched on it briefly, didn't we?
Because it might be that introverts are quite happy to hand over the credit, or it might be
that they're not as visible as other extroverted colleagues.
They're not being noticed to be promoted.
So making sure that you're making yourself visible to the managers.
And I guess if you are a manager listening to this, open your eyes up to people that are
inverted commas, quieter, and look at the quality of work, not the amount of sound that they
make.
That's the thing, the quality and the outcomes should be most noticeable.
And this is the responsibility really of leaders to identify that and to promote, promote the
quality over noise that the work is generating.
Yes.
And besides the output that you've mentioned, I would suggest looking within a team to see
who are in some ways, the positivity injector and people who knows how to support different
people in the group mindfully in perhaps more individual way.
And when you see a team or an organization, you tend to have glues, people like that.
And they usually more introverts because they're more in tune with other people's
emotions.
I think also because when you're at work, there is a big chance that introverts will be
working with extroverts.
There might be certain clashes because extroverts might want answers straight away while
introverts might need time to think.
And so making sure that the need for each team members have been taken into account when
you're planning a project or when you're setting deadlines, for example.
So we've put together nine tips to succeed as introverted leaders.
We didn't want to make 10 commandments.
Nine is a good number.
So the first one is accepting who you are and tap into your personality strengths.
You have to realize your traits, that how you are is valuable.
Yes, because introverts need solitude to recharge, making sure that you set time aside.
So balancing your time or blocking time out in your calendar to make sure that you're not
overstretched.
Okay, so apart from accepting who you are, setting aside time to recharge, the third one
would be think out loud.
So be clear about your thought process and articulate it to others.
Essentially, speak up.
Yeah, because perhaps a lot of the thought process happens in your head and people around
you can't hear it and whilst you're taking time to process it, if you can articulate it
with others, it's more likely that others will come with you with that journey and they
can support you wherever you are.
The active listening skill is one of the biggest trait for introverts.
Use that to your advantage.
The next one would be give and receive feedback.
Yeah, it's important to ensure that you are listened to and that you pay attention to what's
happening around you so that you have an opinion on it.
Agreed.
The next number, I think it might be number six, network with purpose.
So by using ability to form connections, because introverts have an amazing ability to listen
and build this one to one connection and are trustworthy, the network with a purpose and not
just for the sake of networking could be a really big strength and it could really be
meaningful and fulfilling.
Number seven, step out of your comfort zone.
It's easy to stay within it because that's what is called comfort zone for a reason.
But for you to learn and grow, you need to be happy to challenge yourself further.
Number eight would be to communicate clearly, to make sure that what we say is concise and
meaningful.
And number nine, build relationship and trust.
This is how you would gather people around you and this is how you would make change happen
because nothing can be done single-handedly.
Yeah, so when we are now talking about people who are introverts or introverted leaders, we
started to realize that it's not actually the extroversion that is the most important driver of
leadership perception, but actually it's the communication.
It's how we say, when we say, what we say and to who we say that.
So it doesn't necessarily have to be a constant, you know, stream of meaningless conversations.
It just has to be on point and important.
Agreed.
I think superior communication has advantage of leadership potential, regardless of whether
there are introverts, extroverts or ambiverts.
And communications are one of the crucial skillset or the leadership skills that are beneficial
that we've mentioned in our previous episodes are focusing on team health, setting culture, how
to bring out the best in others, and more importantly, to be inspiring and motivating.
So if you're an introvert, listen to yourself, you have something to say, and I am sure that if
you push yourself out of the comfort zone, people who are around you will listen more carefully
and you are an extrovert.
Remember that you have absolutely the same strengths to engage with others.
Just need to make sure that there is a balance between people who are more open in expressing
themselves and those who initially may need more time to process their thoughts and are not
necessarily shouting and screaming about it.
Let us know your thoughts and your opinions and perhaps share your experience, whether you've
worked with introverts or extroverts, and perhaps which one do you prefer?
Just one last thing before we finish.
Do you think that cooperation of extroverts and introverts can be the perfect combination?
I want to say yes, because we're looking at diversity on the table, so you need to have people
who think in different perspective, extroverts, introverts, ambiverts need to come together.
And not kill each other in the process.
Okay.
We will see you next week.
And after this, we go straight into Yuen Reads.
And until then, thank you very much for staying with us.
Bye-bye.
It's about time for Yuen Reads.
Melinda Gates, The Moment of Lift.
This is a crucial book.
It is about gender equity.
It is about listening.
It is about courage.
It is about community, connection, and inclusion.
It is about us, all of us, uniting for a better world.
Her storytelling is so compelling.
And it made me reflect on how I speak and act as a parent, leader, and daughter.
I think this is a must-read for me and for everyone out there, regardless of gender,
because it is an absolute eye-opener what is needed in our society today.
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