What you wish you knew about feedback

 In this episode of our podcast, we are looking into feedback.
We talk about how we give feedback, what are the things we should avoid,
which feedback system we think is most useful for us,
and how do we receive feedback while sharing our stories.
My name is Mike.
And it's Yuen.
Welcome to The Imperfect Clinician.
Today, we're talking about feedback.
Now, this is rather a vast area of discussion between people, I guess,
and also not only within professional settings, but also at home.
And it's got to be divided into giving feedback and receiving feedback.
So what should we start with?
I think maybe let's start with giving feedback as a clinician,
because we do that quite regularly to our team members, fellow clinicians,
people that we work with regularly.
So what do you think feedback, giving feedback, should be or should include?
Well, feedback, for me, is a way of making sure that we are clear
about what we want to address.
I mean, very often the feedback is scarce.
Very often the feedback is people who give feedback assume a lot of things
instead of making themselves explicit and clear in what they want to tell us.
For me, giving feedback is making sure that I am understood
and my intentions are clear.
I don't want to crucify anybody.
I don't want to make sure that people are uncomfortable in a professional setting.
And even in a private setting, I want to make sure that there are certain things
that I don't know were assumed to be done or were advised to be done,
that they actually get done.
If they're not done up to the standard that I would like it to,
I need to explain what I asked to be done
and try to understand what was the reason why it didn't get done.
I think it's quite important to be quite explicit.
I don't want to do it amongst others around.
I think it's good to keep it private.
And I think we should also go back to our previous episode
where we were talking about assuming best intentions.
So we don't know what was the reason why people didn't follow the instructions
or why people did it the way they did.
But I think it's our role to try to understand what actually happened
so that we can do our conclusion and take the feedback to be productive and constructive.
I agree. I think keeping it private and not criticising in public,
doing the best that you can is helpful
because doing it out in the open can feel like an attack.
You mentioned about the assumed best intention.
So would you wait for that moment to give feedback?
Would you do in-the-moment feedback or would you wait for it,
I don't know, like a couple of days later or a week later before you give it?
I personally believe that feedback in the moment is a little bit more impactful.
I mean, if you're giving a feedback on the whole project,
it's hard to do it sometimes halfway through.
And I would wait then.
But in general, if you see something going off the rails of what you assumed it was supposed to be,
according to yours, your idea of getting the job done properly,
I would do the feedback in the moment.
So why would it be different in the project?
Because sometimes people work in a different way.
I mean, unless you know how people work,
some people work better towards the end when the project is coming along at the very last moment.
And there are individual people who have got their own strengths in making this project happen.
But when it comes to smaller tasks, you can see it much clearer and much earlier.
So you can give feedback then.
But when you are allowing delays for some people, will it not delay the whole project?
I don't think you allow delays.
I'm talking about people who you don't see a lot of work until the very last minute, for example.
So there's a difference between being late and doing things late but still within time.
Because the job delivered might be still OK, might be still great.
But then does it not leave you less time for feedback and for making amendments
when it's so close to when you said the on time,
instead of producing something even though small halfway through or every check-in that you do with them.
And it allows feedback, so it allows changes or amendments to be done along the way rather than not really a lot.
And then all of a sudden, majority of it.
I think as a leader or supervisor or, I don't know, like a supervising professional, for example,
you know from your experience how much job is still there to be done and whether it can be done within the desired framework.
So if you see that someone is like in the very early stages, then obviously you're not going to keep it until the very last moment and say,
you tripped it. Because you want the project to be successful.
Or, you know, if you're talking to, like when I was, I don't know, supervising pre-regis,
so pre-registration pharmacists, I could see how much time they've got left
and I could see what there is that they still have to do.
And you can then see whether they're going to have enough time to do it,
just to make sure that it's not putting too much stress and too much burden on them.
And I think this is where you sort of have to trust in some circumstances that people are going to do things.
But you will clearly see if someone, you know, hasn't even started doing the very big chunk of work
and is still, you know, the time coming, you have to provide motivation, let's call it,
motivating feedback to make sure that it gets done on time.
But this is the thing, this is how much supervision, how much trust you have for the individual and also for the team.
You have to be able to spot that. And I think this is the role of a leader.
This is the role of people who are overseeing certain activities
to recognise those trigger points where you would start giving feedback.
I don't fully agree with when you say having the leader is having the ability to spot that,
because I think partially that is true.
But more importantly, you as a leader need to set very clear boundaries for your team members.
And with that, I mean set clear expectation, like you said, being very explicit and the same from the team member.
So if they're not sure what you're asking them to do, they need to come to you and get clarification if any mistake's been done yourself.
You're assuming a lot of, you put a lot of independence into how people are perceiving their work.
Very often in the projects, you get people who may not have this experience to be able to plan their work accordingly.
And sometimes, you know, sometimes you're expecting things that are not doable.
You don't know this because sometimes there are certain things that are happening along the way that are impacting it.
So it's hard to predict it, but you should have the overall overseeing sort of umbrella.
But you should start with setting very clear expectation in terms of this is what you need doing and who's actually doing that.
And if they can't do it, what's the follow up step?
Because you are then not just overseeing, but you are in some ways coaching them as well if they need to.
Yeah. And so this is where we head to the sort of checking up, you know, environment.
So what is checking up? This is not exactly a feedback.
This is like an update in what you do it.
But this very often leads to giving feedback, oh, right, we need to be further ahead.
I was expecting, you know, to be a little bit in a different position right now.
So the outlook of the whole situation should be done in two ways.
You should get your team to make sure that they can highlight any problems along the way.
And they should be, you should be approachable and you should provide the environment where people can come to you and say, right, we need to do it differently.
That didn't work and all that, rather than you just, you know, set the right, this is what we're doing.
I want you to let me know when you're finished.
Yeah, I agree.
So you have to enable your team to be able to feed back to you honestly and truthfully what they're doing if there are problems, if there are delays, if there are things that they cannot sort out themselves.
And also you have to find times to check up on the progress just to make sure that people have got this opportunity to address any issues.
Yeah, and when checking on progress, you're also checking on the wellbeing of the team members.
The wellbeing of the project, you know.
Yeah.
And we mentioned about in the moment feedback, but I think sometimes giving the person option to say, I need to speak to you about something, should we do it now or should we do it in 10 minutes time?
Let's say you are allowing space and also making sure that you're following through after the agreed time can be 15 minutes, half an hour.
Yeah, you leave it in to decide for the team member to see when they would like to hear about what's happening.
And I think it sort of allows people to say, right, yeah, bring it on or no, I need a little bit more time to gather my thoughts to see what's happening.
Or sometimes, you know, you may not be at the best mood to receive feedback.
Sometimes you need to take a quick break, I don't know, get yourself a cup of coffee or your other favorite beverage to make sure that you are prepared for what you're going to hear.
I mean, it doesn't necessarily essentially have to be a bad thing that you're going to hear because positive feedback should be provided as well.
There should be a balance.
You know, we are used to getting only, you know, the bad feedback or when things go wrong.
And I think it's very important to hear what is going right as well so that there is a, you know, there is a balance of perception how the project is going.
It's never a complete disaster and it's never a complete, you know, success if it's a complex thing that you're doing.
So there are always challenges and you need to be able to talk about them freely.
And what about body language, do you think?
Body language is very important.
I mean, you have to avoid raising voice.
You should, you know, frown at people and the way that people perceive you as a person has got a lot to do with how they, what they understand and how they prepare to what you're going to say.
You know, this is always the first thing that comes across.
You know, if you crush your arms and you're being quite, I don't know, dismissive or if you're very, you know, if you're doing it amongst other people around you.
I think it's always should be private.
I mean, private feedback is the best in regards to respecting people's ability to understand what you're telling them rather than, as I said before, you know, crucifying people around with others around you.
Yeah, it's, it shouldn't be a telling off.
You want the progress of the project to be noted, understood, and if there are any challenges you want to address it.
And have you heard of impact feedback?
No, tell me more.
So it's really helpful when you link the behavior to impact or linked the observation that you've seen.
So if I tell a leader she's a clear and concise communicator that may feel good, but then that's it.
There's not much of anything else, but if I tell her her clear communication has motivated her colleagues and help them better understand the company's plan and what's needed from them.
I think the details always help them understand the impact of the positive that I'm commenting on.
And I feel it's one of the most effective type of feedback to start with because it informs a person about the results of their behavior.
So I'm not, I'm not blaming them.
I'm not finding out why they're doing it.
I am not assuming any motivation and I feel it empowers them to work with me.
And it feels like more importantly, you don't really place the blame on people.
You focus on the actions rather than on, on the flow of the things.
And what about bias?
Well, bias is when you are, when you look at the patterns of somebody's behavior, bias can come out of assuming not always the best intentions.
That's, that's one part of the bias that you can already define your feedback with.
And you can, with regards to the bias, you can focus on patterns instead of just one event, or you can, you know, just recall something that's happened most recently.
And I think you should start with a clear head when you are addressing anybody in any project.
I mean, it's very hard because you know how people work.
You have got this idea of, of people's behavior and their actions in your head.
But that shouldn't stop you from being able to look at things separately.
And you mentioned about a few things to avoid already, but I think it's a good idea to expand on them.
So you mentioned keeping it private, so avoid doing it in public.
And what else did you mention?
Body language, don't raise your voice and cross arms.
What are the things that you would tend to avoid?
I think there are, there are certain expressions that you want to avoid because they can be, be judgmental.
I think they can be considered as judgmental.
So for example, I would avoid saying always or never, you know, these are things that I think are good to stay clear of.
Because you always do this or you never look at the whatever outcome you always.
Yeah, because that's not giving anybody a chance of raising above that really.
And I feel that's a shaming language because it's as if you're saying they can't improve, they can't change.
And that comes out as a bias as well, that you coming into the discussion.
So what, do you know any other phrases to avoid?
So I would tend to avoid saying, if I were you, it makes me, if I were to hear this, I'd just feel,
how dare you, but you don't know me, you're not in my shoe.
Another one is when I'm in your shoes or you should have, I think those just get my hackles up.
I get really defensive when I hear them.
And I think they also don't give you a chance or opportunity to, to fix things or to be better because they are very judgmental.
You know, you, whoever gives you feedback feels like they, they know exactly what your position should have been like and what you should have done.
That's, you know, what circumstances are different and people see circumstances in a different light.
I would say, you know, like when you mentioned about in the, in the moment feedback, I would strongly prefer that over just waiting for quarterly or annual review.
So using every opportunity to, to communicate, it doesn't have to be only feedback, doesn't have to be only good and bad feedback, but constantly communicate and see what's happening.
Yeah.
I mean, that's definitely the key to being understood as the person who is giving feedback is to make sure that you have the communication channels open.
It can be that, you know, you don't discuss things with anybody until you give them feedback once every three months and you walk past them and you see them and you, you know, you are not interested in what they're doing.
I don't think there's many people that like that sort of level of independence in their work that only need to be checked up on very, very rarely.
I mean, you know, I, I don't believe in micromanaging and I don't think that this is the best way of conducting any work really, but there should be a communication.
There should be some sort of form of understanding what mental disposition and physical as well.
Sometimes people are, you want to check up on how people are doing.
That's the only reasonable thing to do.
Like you would ask your children, your parents, simple, you know, simple checkup.
Yeah.
And not being vague.
You mentioned earlier on about being very explicit.
I don't like to use sarcasm.
No, sarcasm does not really work in when you're giving feedback, especially when there is negative feedback.
But injecting humor sometimes does have its place, but I wouldn't say that sarcasm is the way to do it because sarcasm is, um, means you're looking down on someone and you're putting yourself in a different position of power.
You say, you know, things better and you are just trying to bring people down.
You can't see me, but I'm shaking my head and rolling my eyes because we mentioned in the first season about how Mike likes to put joke in his feedback and I take it.
Yeah, but joke doesn't, you know, given a funny example of something, it doesn't equal that you are being dismissive of someone by being sarcastic.
True.
There are two different parts of it, but it can be taken as that.
Can it?
I don't agree.
I don't think it's always.
It depends on the receiver.
I think it depends on context.
And I think it's good to, to make sure that the context is quite clear.
And, you know, sometimes you do exaggerate situation when you are giving something very heavy, you know, sarcasm means that I know better and I'm putting myself in a great position of power.
And joking about things does not necessarily mean that.
Yes.
Sarcasm doesn't equal joke, but I still don't think joke is something that I would use.
It might be something that you use, but it's just something that I wouldn't use because I am aware of the impact, even though done with positive intent.
We agree to disagree.
Yeah, we're going to.
Um, I am not keen on giving feedback as a question or making it too long because then it's very hard to put my point across.
What do you think?
Well, I'm giving question in what respect is it when you, for example, how did you do?
What do you think?
How did you do?
How did it went?
Is that sort of a question?
I think that's when you're trying to understand.
However, if you say, do you think you could have done better at this?
It doesn't really help.
What are you trying to say when you were trying to understand the situation?
Of course you can ask questions at the start, but when you want to put your point across.
This is putting people at, uh, you know, at the sharp edge of the end.
Now I have to see where, you know, where you now against the wall.
I want you to think of what you could have done better.
And I think there is sometimes a space to, to ask that, but I think it's in a different form and in a different context.
I think in terms, if you ask, if you providing feedback, you can always ask, how did it feel from the person receiving feedback point of view?
So what led her to this situation that they are now, you know, are there any.
Factors, are there any, you know, there are sometimes tasks we, we often agree to do that are slightly beyond us because we think we might be able to push ourselves, but sometimes being able to provide the opportunity to answer what could have gone wrong is just an opening gate to, to, to the discussion.
I agree.
And I'll, I'll share a scenario in a second, but I just wanted to say when you are giving feedback, I think it's important for you to give the other person space to react because even though you don't want it to be uncomfortable, the feedback is still hard to hear sometimes.
And the person that you are giving feedback to might have some questions, might have some reactions, or they might have additional thoughts or comments.
So I think it's important to ask if they have any questions and also give them the option of circling back to you to say, you've said your point, you've done all the assuming best intention, but they need time to process it and they might say, right, I need 20 minutes break, but I'll come back to you and we can talk about it further and they're coming back with a clearer head instead of being purely emotionally charged.
Yeah, I think that giving this opportunity to reflect, you don't necessarily have to finish discussion there and then.
I mean, coming back to it, especially if these are some more important and more impactful statements in your feedback, yeah, you should let people have a little, provide the opportunity to have a little, I don't know, think, break or something.
I think it's very, can be very, very useful.
And you mentioned about assumed best intention earlier on.
So I think if we link this back to our previous episode, I think it's important to differentiate between the intent and the impact.
So you still do the assumed best intention during questioning, but you still need to hold someone accountable based on feedback.
So I think one of the most important parts of being able to do that is what I've mentioned earlier on to ensure boundaries are clear within the workplace.
So a scenario that I mentioned is I was thinking instead of, so this was something in my head.
So initially I wanted to say, you said you would send me the completed poster on Wednesday, but you didn't send it over until Monday, which made me feel unprepared for the meeting.
I thought I said something like this and I thought it was better.
So let me know what your thoughts are.
I was under the impression that I would receive the poster on Wednesday.
Was there a delay I was not aware about?
What do you think?
I think that I prefer the second, the second question.
And this is because you give the opportunity to open up about any, well, the cause of the delay, really.
You're not putting people in a position, right?
You failed me.
Expand yourself.
People don't necessarily know the full extent of the cause, and that may help you understand better the intentions.
I mean, there is very, very, very, very few people around the world that go to work to do a bad job.
So assuming worst intentions, I don't know, someone's lazy, didn't have time or whatever, didn't choose to do something or just ignored you or whatever is not really the most conducive to provide the right atmosphere for the, you know, working in a team.
It's a long-haul endeavor.
Okay.
You are also building the foundations for future conversations like this.
And I think it's very important to, to understand that you need to provide a safe space for people to express what was the delay caused by, what could have happened rather than straight to say, right, I wasn't, you know, I didn't have enough information.
You failed me.
And, uh, and I think that it's important for a longer impact on the team to be able to let people explain rather than assume they've done something wrong on purpose.
Yeah.
I wonder whether you can give us some example or maybe one of any good or bad feedback that you were thinking of giving.
Well, when it comes to the feedback, I'm yet to hear a bit of good feedback from my dad, for example, and mind you, he's passed away.
So it's very hard to get it done.
I can tell you, for example, when I was investigating some two clinicians, well, that was more of to try to understand the judgment or there was potentially an error of judgment at the time, which I wasn't aware of because it was a developing investigation.
And I noticed that one clinician was reporting way more incidents under their name than the other one.
And I was wondering, should I use it as a, well, you have done more mistakes than the other person.
And I didn't think it was an idea to do it because the fact that there was more incidents reported under one clinician's name doesn't necessarily mean that they make more mistakes.
It might be that they are just reporting more.
It doesn't prove the weight or the weight of the, of the problem that were reported.
Some people want to report the smallest details that potentially could have gone wrong, that had the potential to go wrong, nothing necessarily that hurt anybody than the others.
So I was wondering, should I bring it into the discussion?
And I didn't because I didn't think that it was relevant.
I agree.
I think if you have done that, then it, in some ways you are saying, I would prefer that you don't report your errors.
Yeah, exactly.
You just pushing people into the idea that reporting less is better.
And that should not be the case when you have open culture and open approach to, to improvement.
I agree.
Have you got another?
Well, there was, I also looked at, you know, one of the team members a while ago, that was a long while ago.
And I said that, well, you didn't complete it on time, but another person did.
So, so it's, you know, the comparative feedback does not help because I think that's true.
Never, because it's the way of shaming people and that puts your personal, your discussion on the back foot.
And they do not seem to, because nobody likes to be compared to in the, you know, in the circumstances where you receiving feedback that, you know,
oh, you're better or worse, that you're worse usually.
Inferior.
Because it puts you in an inferior position and it puts you in the position of, you know, diminished power.
And that is something that should be really avoided.
And it, because it doesn't really discuss on the reasons why certain things happen.
So I think it's good to keep individual feedback for the individual and not looking at others.
And even when the person that you give feedback to is trying to explain themselves using others, I would try to avoid that as well.
Because we need to focus on the individual rather than.
And you're not really talking about what can be improved on.
Exactly.
It's a bit like, are you just saying this because you have a bias towards the other person, you prefer the other person, it doesn't matter what I do, I'm not going to be good enough.
But then we come into a classic example of a shit sandwich that is very often, still you can see it in organizations that, you know, you put a good bit of information, then something really bad, and then you finish off with a good bit.
So you put the bad bit in between, you sandwich it in between all the positive bits of things that went right.
And I think that this is now should have been shelved years ago, because it just does not, it does not start the discussion right.
Yeah, and I think it causes a lot of confusion.
There's not a lot of clarity.
What are you focusing on?
Those three things, one of them, two of them, all three of them.
And for me, when you're being unclear, you are being unkind, even though the people when they're trying to do the shit sandwich feedback system is trying to be nice in general, but for me, that is not being nice.
Yeah, because the intention of people giving that sort of, you know, sandwich feedback is I don't think it's ever bad.
I think it's the defense mechanism of not knowing how to discuss the problem, how to be open about the actual problematic situation.
And I think it's sort of masked under this right, I'm going to be balanced here.
So I'm going to say a bit of good things and a bit of bad things.
I think that if it's a really blatant example of that particular sandwich, I think it's just not clear.
And as you said, just simply not kind.
Yeah, and this is one of many different feedback systems.
But I think one of the models that fits closest to what we are discussing...
Is it an alternative, you mean?
Yeah, that's definitely a much better alternative.
It's the coins feedback system.
So C standing for context.
So when and where.
The O stands for observation.
So I noticed or I observed.
So you're saying what you observed in a non-judgmental language, the impact, we talked about impact feedback.
And then the N is for next to what is next for the individual.
S is stay.
So stick around and be responsible in terms of how did it land?
How can I support you?
So listen, essentially.
Yes.
And I think the coins feedback system is something that I would much prefer over any other.
Yeah, but it does sound quite complex.
And do you think that, because a lot of feedback that we get is really taken out of context.
We just say, oh, I wish you'd done that better.
You know, do you think there is not enough focus on giving good feedback?
I think as clinicians, I don't know for other countries, but as clinicians in the UK, the curriculum should involve more of how to give and receive feedback.
Perhaps it's more clinical based.
It is part of the communication skills.
And this also takes us to how do you give feedback to your patients?
And I think this is also a way of selling certain information to people about what they've been up to.
And I think it's quite important to make sure that we do it skillfully.
That's why we decided to talk about it today.
And I think it might be easier.
It might feel that you have slightly more power when you are giving feedback, but what about receiving feedback effectively?
So now you're not in the driver's seat.
You are the one who is listening to feedback given to you.
Well, you probably might have heard in previous episodes that when I hear the phone ringing,
I assume that there's something wrong happened.
And I think I am working on it to make sure that I try to keep my mind open and try to avoid taking it personally as well.
And I think by assuming that the things are going to be very negative, you automatically start the procedure of shaming yourself.
And that's what doesn't put you in a good position as a receiver of a feedback.
Yeah, and I think when you're doing that, you lose self-trust.
You almost doubt yourself straight away.
Very true, yeah.
So how do you go about listening to the feedback?
How would you approach that?
So I think, first of all, it's trying to listen without interrupting and actually listening.
Like I am guilty of this sometimes when I start hearing feedback, my brain is automatically forming a response already thinking that's not true.
Let me tell you what's true.
And I'm not really hearing what the other person is saying.
So hear the other person out, listen to what they're actually saying, not what you assume they'll say.
And usually that happens when I am operating based on fear.
So if I'm afraid of not being good enough, this will trigger it.
It might lead to me being defensive and I will start formulating my defense, my words.
Excuses, effectively.
I don't want to use the word excuses because again, assume best intention.
I think there are some overlapping in terms of body language.
Would you agree?
Oh, definitely.
I mean, body language is the first thing we see when we're talking to people.
But we get to get more feedback that's written and more feedback over, well, video conference calls or via phone as well.
And I think that there are some triggers that you might notice that are not necessarily strictly verbal.
Yeah.
I mean, it's probably different for written feedback.
Yeah.
So both verbal and non-verbal.
And non-verbal includes body language and written feedback, would you say?
Absolutely.
Because when you write an email, I think the tone of voice might convey a message which might not be the message that you're trying to say.
Agree.
And I think when you mentioned about body language, sometimes when I try to act as if the feedback doesn't really affect me, even though it does, this doesn't help, but I would try to look distracted or bored.
And I wonder what type of message do you feel it is giving when I just look like I'm not interested?
I mean, if you are attentive, it shows that you value what people are saying and, you know, it makes you feel differently.
You know, it makes you feel better about your approach and it makes you feel more like a partner that you're both trying to achieve something good.
A discussion.
A discussion, yes.
And so I think the other part is keeping an open mind because if you go in assuming the worst thing, then you are not receptive to new ideas or different opinions.
Have you come across any situations like that before?
I mean, yeah.
I'm sure we all have to some extent, and I think often there is more than one way of doing something and people may have a completely different viewpoint or on a given topic.
And sometimes you might even learn something worthwhile, you know, when you are listening to others.
And I think that being already set in your ways on accepting the feedback channels you to the response that may not be the best and might maybe just reactive rather than actively trying to use it as a learning opportunity.
Yeah.
And I think it's especially difficult for some people.
Maybe when it comes from someone who is new or who is of a junior position, I would say, try to be curious and listen.
So instead of taking it personally, like he or she's taking a shot at me or he or she must not like me, even though you might completely disagree with what they're saying, I would start with the curiosity first.
I think that's a very good approach.
Also in the situation where you're thinking, well, why is that person giving me feedback?
Because sometimes there isn't a problem.
There's, you know, it's the ABC of what I'm doing and somebody is questioning my basic ability, but maybe having an open mind means that maybe they are worried about something that I don't see.
Maybe they are worried about something that is bothering them.
You know, we want to have those sleepless nights.
So do people who give the feedback.
So maybe they want just clarification or confirmation that what you've done is the right way to do things.
Or maybe for them it's fear driven because they want to be seen as making the contribution.
Very true, yeah.
What about understanding the message?
We mentioned that earlier on when we talked about giving feedback, but I think it's important for you to be on the same page as the person giving feedback.
Especially before, you know, before you respond to the feedback.
Definitely.
I think you should ask questions for clarification.
And I find this is not just at work, but even when I'm talking to you, the best way of communicating is to summarise what is being said and then get confirmation from you.
Or I repeat key points so you know that I've got the, I've interpreted the feedback correctly or any communication that you actually want to say.
Yeah, and I think it's also similar when you are in a group, when you can ask other for feedback.
What do other people heard?
What do other people understand from the feedback given before you respond to the feedback?
And again, trying to be explicit to what kind of feedback you are seeking beforehand so you are not taken by surprise.
Yeah, rather than open feedback.
I think another thing for both giving and receiving feedback is reflection and deciding on what to do next.
So when you have been given the feedback, I think it's useful to assess the value of the feedback and what's the consequences of either using it or ignoring it.
And then decide what to do because of that, because I want to say your response is entirely your choice.
It is a choice, absolutely.
I think it's like with any action of others that might upset you or make you happy or whatever, you know, how you can't control what other people do or tell you, but you can control on how you respond to it.
I think that is a very important part of it.
Yeah. And what do you do if you disagree with the feedback?
Well, we often can disagree with feedback because we can have a different view on the circumstances, on the events that led to, well, negative outcome in the respect.
And I think it's worth considering asking for a second opinion from someone else, maybe, or just, you know, file it away.
You can ignore it.
You can, you know, put it behind you without doing anything about it.
But asking somebody else for their interpretation can also give you a different viewpoint.
And I want to say not all feedback is constructive.
Sometimes it is people needing a rant and you took the brunt of it.
Yeah.
You don't have a choice.
Yeah, you don't have a choice.
But you can see how much of the feedback was emotion driven.
That's what you can, you can feel how, which way it's going, whether it's just a rant or whether, you know, maybe you're just a very good listening ear and somebody needed an outlet.
Yeah.
And I want to say another, one of the last important thing I feel is to follow up on feedback because that makes me feel that I can trust the other person, vice versa.
So if the follow up might involve implementing the suggestions or you might want to set up another meeting to discuss the feedback or resubmit the revised work.
Yeah, depending on the circumstances, follow up is just providing the continuity and trying to keep the communication channels open and making sure that people are listening and they take things seriously.
Yeah.
So how, how do you receive feedback on a good day and on a bad day?
For me, on a bad day, I might think internally, who want you to tell me what to do?
You can't even do my job well.
That's all in my head.
And then I stew internally and my face is as neutral as possible.
And then I run somewhere else or even worse to get on somebody else afterwards, which with practice, hopefully not that much.
So is that on a good day?
No, it's on a bad day.
On a good day, I think my perspective changes so I can see he or she is quite stressed out.
I can see where they're coming from and it might be some is valid, most of the points are valid or maybe none at all.
And I sort of take a step back and have a bit of distance where I think, I think there is a better way of delivering it.
How would I do it better or how would I do it differently if it was me so that I can engage with the other person better?
I'm trying to think about what I do on a good day and what I do on a bad day.
Sleep.
Sleep it off.
No, I think that on a bad day, I wouldn't class a rapid response as, well, I wouldn't feel at the time that it's, you know, I'm being defensive.
Because I feel like explaining or putting your point across at that moment is a part of like a return feedback loop.
Okay, so, or you didn't do something and I said, I didn't do it because there was some other opportunity, other things that happened.
And that sort of gives a quick fire question because it also, from my point of view as a person who is receiving feedback, feels like, right, I'm not preparing for the answer.
I'm not building a court case.
I'm saying how it is, how it made me feel.
And then I feel like the opportunity for understanding what I said is passed on to the person that's giving feedback.
Is this a good day or a bad day?
It's on a bad day, you know, you bounce back and you sort of, you know, straight away there are responses.
Reactive.
Reactive, yes.
But then you're trying to explain yourself right away to make sure that you're not calculating the response in a way.
Okay, how is it different on a good day?
On a good day, I listen more, I think.
I listen more, I try to understand the whole situation.
I think from the perspective of a person who's giving feedback, it's much more difficult to deal with somebody who listens to the feedback.
And asks questions.
And asks questions and wants to find out more because then it puts pressure on the person giving feedback to be way more prepared.
And I think that you need to, well, I need to slow down, let people talk.
Let me have a little thing before I jump into answering, finding excuses or something else because that will be in the longer run more impactful.
And I think by doing that, you're also catching up people who are giving feedback as an automatic emotional response without doing their further finding out facts and doing a bit of understanding themselves, get a bit of distance before coming to you.
And then when you start asking questions, they'll be like, oh, I wasn't prepared for this, I just want to hand the problem to you and jet off.
So that's actually, that's a good one.
Okay.
So have we learned something this time?
I hope you do.
And I hope you let us know.
I have definitely done.
Yeah, I think what you've mentioned earlier on is helpful.
And perhaps we know some of what we should do is how do we make sure that we do it in the better frame of mind.
And I hope that you who's listening can tell us whether you've learned anything or whether you've questioned anything.
Thank you all for listening.
Thank you.
Until next time.
Welcome to the segment of Yuen Reads.
Today's book is a bit off the cuff.
It's called The Illuminated Breath by Dylan Werner.
He changed me from an every second perspective because this book is about breathing techniques and breath work.
And he is a yoga teacher.
Very, very popular and does a lot of crazy, crazy stuff.
And you'll see him everywhere on Instagram and everywhere you can find him.
But the part that I always, always go back to, it's how you, in some ways, plan your own breath.
So at the start, I wasn't that advanced.
So I was just following his advice on how to sequence my breath.
So he's got equanimity breath, relaxation and jibu, stress and anxiety relief, asleep, for concentration and memory, athletic performance, increased metabolism, post-workout delivery, that sort of thing.
And I pick and choose whatever I need.
And sometimes I do that for a longer period of time if I need to, if I need a relaxation one before going to sleep or I feel that I had a stressful day, I would do the stress relief one.
It really helps, calms me down without doing breathing exercises like this, without listening to a guided one.
Of course, you can hear guided one from him as well.
However, when you have these in hand, you can do it in complete silence and see the effect of how it works.
This is, yeah, I still use it till now to help with my breathing.
And I meditate twice a day.
And sometimes I meditate without the breath work and sometimes I do.
And when I do the breath work, this is my go-to book.
Hopefully, it will be helpful for you.
Thank you for joining the segment.

You just listened to The Imperfect Clinician podcast.
We strongly recommend you leave your email on our website so that
we can let you know directly about any news and free exclusive content for subscribers.
If you review us on Apple podcast or Podchaser,
there is a chance we can reach more people seeking support and encouragement.
Reflect on how you are now and let us know about one thing you would do differently
after listening to us.
We love to hear from you, so please keep the questions coming via direct message,
email, comment, or record a voicemail on our website.
We will do our best to answer you either directly or via the podcast.
Bye for now and until next time.
Please record a voicemail on our website.
We will do our best to answer you either directly or via the podcast.
Bye for now, and until next time.